Adani Total Gas Ltd

NSE:ATGL

Q2-2026 Earnings Call

[Operator]

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Adani Total Gas Limited Q2 FY '26 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. From Adani Total Gas, we are joined on the call by Mr. Suresh P. Manglani, Executive Director and CEO; Mr. Preyash Jhaveri, Head of Finance; and Mr. Ravindra Desai, Head of Gas Sourcing and Business Development.

I now hand the conference over to Mr. Suresh P. Manglani, Executive Director and Chief Executive Officer from Adani Total Gas Limited. Thank you, and over to you, Mr. Manglani.

[Suresh Manglani, executive]

Thank you. Good morning, everyone. Greetings and wishing you a happy New Year filled with joy and prosperity. It's a pleasure to welcome our investors, analysts and fund houses to this call. Thank you for taking the time to join us today for the quarter 2, which is from July to September and first half April to September FY '25-'26 results call of Adani Total Gas. I'm pleased to share the operational and financial results of Adani Total Gas for the quarter and half year ending September 30, 2005 (sic) [ 2025 ].

Let me now begin by sharing details on our volume growth and network expansion during the half year. ATGL achieved robust overall volume growth of 16% year-on-year basis, with CNG volume rising 18% on year-on-year in quarter 2 FY '26 and 19% year-on-year for first half FY '26, while PNG volume grew 11% in the quarter and 9% for the half year. This was driven by network expansion or our deeper market penetration. During the quarter, we added 12 new CNG stations, taking our network to 662 stations. Out of these 662 stations, 129 CNG stations are either Company Owned Dealer Operated or Dealer Owned Dealer Operated. We are looking to add more CODO and DODO outlets as part of our expansion strategy.

In line with our focus of expanding infrastructure network across our geographical areas, our steel pipe infrastructure now have increased to 14,524-inch kilometers. This is the backbone for our CGD infrastructure and helps us to reach large masses across all our 34 geographical areas. With the addition of 27,000 new home PNG connection during the quarter and around 54,000 new PNG home connection in the first half of fiscal year, I'm very happy to inform you all that we have surpassed a major milestone of 1 million consumers during this quarter. Our industrial and commercial consumers, which are generally relatively bulk users has reached to 9,603 consumers.

We have added 147 new consumers during this quarter and 304 new industrial and commercial consumers during first half, covering diversified industries and commercial establishments. You are aware that we have EV, which is operating E-mobility business, setting up EV charging station across the country. This EV name is Adani TotalEnergies E-mobility limited. The footprint, our E-mobility has now increased to 4,209 installed charging points across 26 states, union territories and 226 cities, which is equivalent to 42-megawatt installed capacity. We are rapidly progressing towards achieving a network of 10,000 EV charging points.

Along with our 50:50 JV, you are aware that we also have a 50:50 JV with Indian Oil Corporation. The JV name is Indian Oil Adani Gas Private Limited, IOAGPL. If we add ATGL plus IOAGPL, our consolidated nationwide CGD network now stands at 1,095 CNG stations, almost touching 1,100 CNG stations, 12 lakh plus PNG home connections, 10,884, roughly 11,000 C&I consumer and 26,411-inch kilometers of steel pipeline network. Collectively, ATGL and IOAGPL is serving 53 geographical area, which translates to 125 districts. Out of this, 34 geographical area translating to 95 districts is being serviced by ATGL and remaining 19 geographical area translating to 30 districts is being serviced by our JV company, IOAGPL.

With the continued support to CGD industry, the supply chain for APM and New well gas, which we get in lieu of reduction in APM has been realigned now. The supply chain has been realigned, which has resulted levy of 2% CST instead of earlier, which was being levied 15% VAT. This has been made effective from 1st October 2025, and this is applicable only to the gas, which is supplied outside Gujarat because Gujarat VAT was 15%. Now the realignment of our supply chain has resulted levy of 2% for the gas, which is going outside -- being supplied outside Gujarat. This development shall certainly -- is helping us to now work out and provide enhanced affordability to our CNG and PNG home consumers.

On the financial performance front, the revenue from operations for quarter 2 and first half '26 has risen by 19% in quarter 2 to INR 1,569 crores and in first half by 20% to INR 3,060 crores, respectively, on account of the overall volume growth. Our EBITDA for quarter 2 FY '26 was INR 302 crores and for first half INR 603 crores. Profit before tax for quarter 2 was INR 217 crores and for first half INR 436 crores. Profit after tax for quarter 2, July to September FY '25, '26, was INR 162 crores and for first half of April to September period was INR 320 crores -- INR 324 crores, sorry, INR 324 crores for first half.

During the quarter, one -- or another good development which took place, and I'm delighted to share with you all, is that the external credit rating agencies have now assigned Adani Total Gas upgraded to AA+, which is a Stable rating by ICRA. CARE and CRISIL to another credit rating agency, they have given us a fresh ratings of AA+ Stable for ATGL. So now we have 3 credit -- 3 ratings from 3 different crediting agencies and all 3 are AA+ Stable. Now this reflects the growing scale of our operations, underpinned by healthy volume growth, a favorite demand outlook and continued network expansion.

It also acknowledges our strong promoter backing, robust gas sourcing arrangements and a sound financial profile. During the quarter, you will be very happy to know that Adani Total Gas won three PNGRB, which is our regulator, three different awards for the CGD development in the areas of HSE, Sustainability and customer delight segment. In closing, I would like to reiterate that Adani Total Gas remains committed to supporting India's energy transition by delivering affordable, reliable and cleaner energy solution across households, transportation and industrial segment.

The revenue and volume growth, along with the upgrade in credit rating from these three leading rating agencies underscores the strength of our sustainable business model. Taking this opportunity to thank all our shareholders, analysts, fund houses, our consumers, dealers, suppliers, business partners and employees for their continued trust and support. I'm very happy that team ATGL has delivered the impressive quarter 2 and first-half results. Your confidence in our journey inspires us to keep pushing boundaries and delivering sustainable growth. Thank you all.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] The first question comes from the line of Sabri Hazarika from Emkay Global Financial Services.

[Sabri Hazarika, analyst]

So I have a few questions. First one relates to this Gujarat's VAT realignment. So can you quantify in your case, what is the benefit which has accrued to the company in terms of EBITDA per SCM and also whether you have any requirement to pass it on to customers? Or can you like use it to expand your margins?

[Suresh Manglani, executive]

Okay. You can ask second question as well.

[Sabri Hazarika, analyst]

Second question is on this PNGRB zonal apportionment where they have put CGD under Zone 1. So when it is expected to get implemented because it was supposed to happen in 1 month, now it's been like 2, 3 months. And third one is -- of course, another question is on your allocation, APM allocation and New well gas allocation in Q2 and also the run rate currently. These are my 3 questions.

[Suresh Manglani, executive]

Very good. First of all, actually, I'm very happy, Mr. Hazarika, that you are so updated with the developments which this sector is witnessing. And all three questions are very relevant. And I'm very happy that you are asking, and I'm sure these questions must be in the minds of many other analysts who are there on the call or they may -- many may not be on the call. So let me respond each one by one. Gujarat VAT versus CST. This is -- as I explained, this is because of the realignment of our supply chain.

And this is applicable on APM because remaining gas was anyway being purchased on CST, all whether we buy from HPHT or RLNG, all is being purchased on CST, which is a legitimate transactions which we buy from outside Gujarat or we -- from any destination to another destination, which is interstate. In this case, the impact on EBITDA per SCM keeps varying depending upon how much we get APM and New well gas. So it's by anybody's guess a 13% difference from 2% versus 13%. That is what is the difference. 15% was non-ratable. 2% is again a cost to us. So 13% is a net benefit which is coming. Your question is, are we passing through? Of course, we had to pass through.

So we will be calibrating and you will see very soon. We were actually waiting for all the informations to -- get compiled bills to one. So we would be passing through. You will be hearing that news very soon. See ultimately, Adani Group has always taken this view that our vision is to make PNG and CNG as much as we could do from our side more and more affordable, and that's what we have been doing, ensuring prudent pricing. So we will be calibrating our pricing pass-through shortly.

The second question was your -- what is happening to Zone 1 tariff, which the notification has come, but actual implementation is yet to take place. The notification was a first step. First of all, I think it is a big compliment to PNGRB as well as to pipeline industry -- transmission industry, which has supported this initiative that CGD being a primary sector and consumers should get full benefit of this tariff part. So we are now waiting. The industry consultations are taking place by regulator.

Hopefully, we expect sooner than the later, this implementation will take place. Of course, there are various nuances which have to be taken care of that finally what if the Zone 1 tariff is coming, which is applicable for us. And implication if there are -- current Zone 1 tariff is much lesser. It has to be going somewhere in the middle part. And then Zone 2 tariff will have some implication. So overall, I think there has to be a consensus among the industry player including those CGDs who may have more implication of a Zone 1 tariff itself, which was earlier lower and now it may go a little higher on that side.

So I think there are nuances on this. This is while regulator has taken a strong step of moving forward and notifying it. We are expecting sooner that this implementation also will take place. A lot of work we understand is going on in terms of ensuring there is a consensus among all the industry players and CGD entities. We are quite supportive of this, and we are awaiting implementation as well.

Third, you had asked, again, a very important question on APM and New well gas allocation. We have stated that there has been a further moderation down of APM allocation in the first half. Earlier -- if you compare the previous year, the combined allocation was 70%. This time, it is 59% in the first half. And if I ask you in the quarter 2, which is the relevant quarter for this, it was 35%, 36% around, combined of the APM...

[Unknown Executive]

APM and...

[Suresh Manglani, executive]

And New well gas allocation, 35.8% -- both 35%, 36%. So that is the allocation. And the only thing which is benefiting us is our gas sourcing strategy as we have been always making you aware that we have this continuous efforts. Ravindra, who is our gas sourcing head and along with this team, they are continuously working, watching market, what's going on, and they are securing gas at different indices, different tenures. And that's what we are working on. So that's -- I think that our strategy on gas sourcing portfolio building is helping us to mitigate the adversity, which is coming from reduction in the APM and the New well gas as a combined.

[Sabri Hazarika, analyst]

Just a small follow-up. So 35%, 36% is APM plus New well gas combined in Q2. So versus -- and you mentioned H1 was 59%. So versus -- Q1 versus Q2, the combined allocation itself has fallen significantly. Is that right?

[Suresh Manglani, executive]

Let me give it to -- Ravindra, why don't you just take this question? What was the Q1 allocation? Why don't you just take it? APM plus New well gas.

[Sabri Hazarika, analyst]

And also breakup between APM and New well gas?

[Suresh Manglani, executive]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Ravindra Desai, executive]

Yes, so APM was around 51.4% around 52%, which has come down to around 36%. However, if you look at the HPHT allocation and the -- which has increased significantly and the New well intervention gas has come along in addition to the APM. So the substitution is happening. So the cheaper gas APM is being replaced probably by a bit higher value and HPHT gas.

[Suresh Manglani, executive]

No, his question was that APM plus New well gas in Q1 is how much combined because in Q1, you told me 36%...

[Ravindra Desai, executive]

Q2 is 36%.

[Suresh Manglani, executive]

Q2 is 36% and combined?

[Ravindra Desai, executive]

Combined.

[Suresh Manglani, executive]

And combined annual Q1 is how much?

[Ravindra Desai, executive]

combined, 51%.

[Suresh Manglani, executive]

51% versus 36%, that's the -- Mr. Hazarika, that's the data.

[Sabri Hazarika, analyst]

And of this New well gas, pure New well gas is how much?

[Suresh Manglani, executive]

Do you details?

[Ravindra Desai, executive]

No, we'll get back to you on that -- on the...

[Suresh Manglani, executive]

so, we got a combined details.

[Ravindra Desai, executive]

Currently, we have a combined details. Mr. Hazarika, we can always give you the detailed breakup. But generally, we look at a combined because this is being -- New well gas is being given in lieu of the reduction in APM. So we always keep it a combined data. But if you are interested to see...

[Sabri Hazarika, analyst]

No, that's fine. And just a small thing, this Gujarat, when you mentioned APM, you mentioned APM along with New well gas, right? There also, it will be applicable, right? Because it is the same source, right? Yes same domestic source, yes.

[Ravindra Desai, executive]

Yes.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] Our next question comes from the line of Achal Shah from Ambit Capital.

[Vivekanand S., analyst]

Sorry, this is Vivekanand from Amit, I'm Achal's colleague. So following up on Mr. Hazarika's question on the zonal tariffs. And I want to understand, previously, there were -- and the zonal criterion was 0 to 300 kilometers, and there was no distinction made on the kind of customer. But now DPNG and CNE customers across India will move to Zone 1. So do you have any color on the new zonal definition that is currently being deliberated? Will it remain based on the distance for the other consumers?

And secondly, what are the other perspectives here? I think you said one point that some CGD entities who are already in Zone 1 will see a tariff hike. So perhaps they are deliberating and they are perhaps pushing back on the new zonal tariffs. But what are the other counter views by participants, industry participants that is holding back the new zonal tariff?

[Suresh Manglani, executive]

You see, Vivekanand, first of all, thank you that you came on the call. Zonal earlier, we had 3 zones. And this is the evaluation happens. Whenever you move towards new concept, the three zone came in 0 to 300, 300 to I think, 1,200 and above 1,200. Now then this started stabilizing and there was a need for rethinking that whether this is working efficiently as it was envisaged. And there was a view within industry that there is a need now to trim down to two zones. Regulator took a consultation as it -- always they do. And finally, it came down that industry is more consensus is building that we should have a two zone, Zone 1 and Zone 2.

So 0 to 300 -- up to 300 kilometers is Zone 1 and rest is all Zone 2. Now that will bring a lot of nuances of that. How do we now ensure the -- in zonal, you are aware what happens is that the entity gets the tariff as per the PNGRB determined regulations. Whereas that gets subsumed all in that one go, what is the India weighted average tariff. And that's where then they decide how much in Zone 1 and how much in Zone 2, but eventually, it's a zero-sum game. And then it gets distributed to entity, let's say, GAIL gets what GAIL tariff has been determined.

So now the whole work is going on to -- when they are merging 3 zones to 2 zones and then they are determining CGD as an entire country Zone 1, not in Zone 2. This, as I was telling earlier when Mr. Hazarika was asking me the question that there are nuances. Industry is sitting together. They are working it out, how much is our APM and New well gas, which is going to be given. We are going to get only for home and CNG. Industrial and commercial is going to be outside Zone 1 tariff. We will be getting the same tariff as Zone 1 and Zone 2. So there are nuances on gas purchases. There are nuances on transportation.

So I would urge you all that have a bit of a patience for some more time, as you all have maintained. We will come to know and then you will see counter views because what will happen once the tariffs are known, what is going to be Zone 1 tariff for us, for home PNG and CNG and then remaining with Zone 2 tariff for us for industrial and commercial, some CGDs will have significant amount of volume for industrial commercial. Some will have significant on CNG side. So all these views will emerge once we will see the further detailing of the implementation part. So today, we are waiting for that details to be finally emerged with the consensus of industry. We would, of course, be also part of it as an industrial consultation.

So my request would be that we have to wait for finality what comes out and how it is going to be working out. So that interest of all stakeholders is taken. Of course, in such a huge exercise, you know there would be some people impacting more on the favorable side, some will be on other side. How do we make sure that, that impact adverse is as less as possible and the supporting side also is balanced. I'm sure regulator is known, they will do this work along with the industry, and we would all come out with good implementation methodology. Please, if you could wait for some more time.

[Vivekanand S., analyst]

Thank you very much, Suresh sir, that was very clarifying. My second question is on the government policy that was announced in April with respect to advanced quarterly allocation of domestic gas. This was a policy that was meant to give you clarity on your APM and New well gas allocation for the next 2 quarters. So would you be able to guide us on the combined APM and New well gas allocation for 3Q FY '26 and 4Q FY '26 based on this guideline?

[Suresh Manglani, executive]

I will ask Ravindra, who is on more hands on the allocations part. I think Ravindra, if you could brief with them...

[Ravindra Desai, executive]

Agree, there was a guideline where CGD entities requested that it would have more clarity on the allocation percentage happening so that we can plan our demand and all. So yes, there is some positive development there. We have been receiving very positive feedback from the different producers handling the entire APM allocation regularly.

And whenever these volumes are available, we are being informed regularly before the actual volume is available. If you look at the allocation for both APM and NWG for quarter 1 FY '26, it was 52%. And quarter 2 FY '26 considering both APM and NWG, it has come to around 48%. So last question what was asked, that was also the percentage volume what we -- what we got for both APM and NWG.

[Vivekanand S., analyst]

Sorry, sir, I'm a bit confused. Previously, you said that the allocation has moderated from 51.4% to 36%.

[Ravindra Desai, executive]

Yes, I think there is an error there on our end. If we take both APM and NWG, it is not 36%, it is 48%.

[Vivekanand S., analyst]

Okay. So 36% is the APM, is it?

[Ravindra Desai, executive]

Only APM. APM on CNG segment only, excluding the PNG domestic.

[Vivekanand S., analyst]

Okay. For PNG, you are assuming 100% or rather the government anyway has stated that 100% of the...

[Ravindra Desai, executive]

105%.

[Vivekanand S., analyst]

105%. Okay.

[Operator]

Our next question comes from the line of Ramesh Shankaranarayanan, an individual investor.

[Unknown Analyst]

So if you look at the reduction in the cheaper APM gas and to the extent that has been replaced by New well gas, how have you managed the higher cost of gas in terms of the transmission and how do you see the challenge of managing volume growth and margins and growth in your bottom line? How do you see that? Because your petroleum alternatives have been stable and to that extent, the competitive positioning of CNG as a fuel has possibly become a little bit under pressure, if I may say that. So to that extent, how do you see the reduction in the cheaper gas impacting your ability to balance volume growth and margins?

[Suresh Manglani, executive]

And I'm very happy that as individual investor, you have also come on the call. Normally, we see institutional investors. It's a good development that individual investors are also taking interest. And you have asked a very pertinent question. That's another -- I feel delighted that our individual investors are also keeping such tab on the development of a sector.

Now responding to your question, first, I will touch upon the growth. We have generally been consistently delivering double-digit growth. It is largely -- one is that our areas are expanding. We are -- our infrastructure development growth, which you are seeing despite this quarter or I would say, first half mired by quite a high heavy rains across the country. We had a very significant higher rains in this first half or the second quarter as compared to the previous year first half or second quarter.

But still, if you see our infrastructure development, our teams have delivered a good result. So I am confident that my team would continue to deliver double-digit or an impressive volume growth as we have done this time. Now the challenge is how do we meet the differential between APM and New well gas, which generally is declining as we have been stating. We are hoping -- see, one part important is that we must keep in mind that government focus on CGD, regulator focus on CGD continues to remain very strong. So that's a very strong positive development for us.

You see Zone 1 coming out from regulator for CGD, for CND and home P&D. This is a very significant positive direction that regulator or a government still is looking at supporting CGD development. And this is a last-mile connectivity. So we believe that we will have a stabilization of APM and New well gas. There will be a continued focus on priority home, PNG and CNG from government side. Home 105% is continuing, and we hope CNG also will get stabilized. Because CNG, despite even alternate fuel, as you said, being stable or new fuels are getting penetrated, CNG is growing. People are having choice of CNG.

Now how are we managing? As I stated, we have a very good sourcing team. We have a strategy in place that we have a mix of a portfolio building where we purchase indices, not one single indices. We'll have Henry Hub, we'll have Brent, we'll have some spot market, we'll have HPHT. Then we'll have different tenure so that we don't put all eggs in one basket being a CGD. For a CGD, the most responsible job is to remain relevant in the market. How do we make sure that we are relevant for industrial consumers vis-a-vis alternate fuel? How do we remain relevant for vehicle consumer vis-a-vis petrol and diesel? How do we remain relevant for our own consumer for LPG, domestic and commercial for commercial.

So we are facing this while people feel that CGD is a monopoly, but if you see there are natural competitions, which are there across all the segments. So for us, the job is to ensure that our gas sourcing team is always on the toes. Management is working to make sure portfolio is so relevant that we are able to service even in the time when geopolitical situation brings us in a very precarious situation that gas prices are very high. But still my consumer will be expecting Adani Group TotalEnergies should have experts available to stabilize the prices. And that's what if you see our track record, we have been generally maintaining prudent pricing.

So I think I would like you to be rest assured that our gas sourcing team is working. We are bridging the gap. We are keeping the watch on the market. We are also keeping tab on APM and New well gas, how it is moving, what's going to be likely scenario, how market is going to be moving in the likely scenario, how the Brent is moving, all that we are working out. And that's our job. That's the job for us to work or to ensure that you get good returns.

And that's what we are trying to do day in and day out. Ramesh, if you have any other question, you can ask and whether my colleague wants to add anything to -- Ravindra, he can add something to you because he is the person and along with the team, they are heading the gas sourcing. So Ravindra, do you want to give any word of assurance?

[Ravindra Desai, executive]

No, I think you have answered whole. However, if you look at the portfolio, you can see that around we have 39% [indiscernible] portfolio whereas the different indices like Henry Hub, Brent -- we have got around 17% on the Henry Hub and around 13% on the Brent. So various portfolios help us to diversify. And while keeping a tag on the domestic prices plus the international prices, we keep on optimizing our portfolio and reduce our prices continuously, which help us to serve the customers better.

[Suresh Manglani, executive]

Hope we could satisfy you with our answers, Ramesh.

[Unknown Analyst]

Sir, if I might ask a couple of follow-up questions. On gas sourcing -- I mean, we have seen companies talk about a blend of Brent-linked versus Henry Hub. So in terms of your portfolio, how much of your imported LNG would be linked to Brent-linked contracts and what percentage would be Henry Hub? And the second thought is in terms of other sources of business like EV charging and LNG retailing, what the progress you have made on the ground? Any progress you see on these two verticals on the EV charging and LNG as an auto fuel contributing to our growth in the next 1 or 2 years?

[Suresh Manglani, executive]

Yes. So I think let -- Ravindra completes his response to you on the portfolio building. Ravindra, you want to...

[Ravindra Desai, executive]

Yes. So if we talk about the percentage of the indices. So if you talk of Brent, it could be around 14% Brent-linked volumes currently what we have in our portfolio. And similarly, around 15% to 16% is on the Henry Hub. But these contracts have different tenures. So they keep on varying. So as we move ahead, we keep on purchasing volumes on different tenures for different linkages so that we keep our average cost to the lowest possible number.

[Suresh Manglani, executive]

And Ramesh, you have to also keep in mind that these contracts have a lot of nuances on take-or-pays. There are hedging arrangements possibilities. So I think the job of expert sourcing team is to ensure that the portfolio building is strong. They keep ATGL relevant in the market that every time for every consumer segment, Adani Group and TotalEnergies company is able to bring out the resilience in the market. That's what we are doing it actually.

Now coming to your question on EV side, I think you must be -- as you are following us -- following the sector and ATGL, you must have seen the growth which are -- our SPV team is delivering on quarter-on-quarter basis. So this quarter, our charge points have increased to 4,209. Almost around 800 points have been added. So this is an impressive growth of around 7 to 8 charge points every day. Our target would be at least 10 to 15 charge points every day is what is our target, but there are nuances on infrastructure development, so which happens.

From our side, I think team has a full support to build more and more charge points because we believe that even on the alternate fuel side, EV is growing up quite well on buses side, on fleet operator side. So we are simultaneously building up EV charge points infrastructure across the country, both on B2B and B2C side. And we see a good traction on our infra growth as well as the utilization side. We added almost 50% more consumers or I would say, utilization this quarter itself by bringing several promotional schemes. So EV is doing very well from our side. We have 42-megawatt capacity. Target is to reach 100 megawatts very soon. The work is going on across the country. When I'm talking to you, a large number of sites are under construction.

On the LNG retailing side, we had a very strong business plan to bring out a large number of LNG stations. But currently, looking at the various issues around boil-off, et cetera. So we are actually watching the development on the conversion or a new vehicle LNG coming up. We have been talking to several OEMs and stakeholders. So currently, we are going -- trading this path cautiously that we have 3, 4 LNG stations, 2 are under development, Dahej and Mundra. We have at Tripur an LNG station.

And we have multiple sites identified, but we'll take it off when we see business developing or we have commitment of either fleet operators, transporters or OEMs to bring it out. So that path, we are looking at the development on the market side, while we are also working -- our teams on the LNG side is working with various stakeholders. So I will leave that on the LNG side that way. But EV side, I think there is a lot of traction and momentum is happening.

[Unknown Analyst]

Just one last thought on your IOC and Adani JV, the numbers are still not reflecting in the P&L and balance sheet. So when do you see the infrastructure addition and volume growth giving you a meaningful growth in terms of the contribution of IOC Adani to the consolidated revenue and profits? What is the time line? And what are the kind of peak volume one can expect, say, in the next 3 to 4 years?

[Suresh Manglani, executive]

No, I think Ramesh, as you see infrastructure part, I think they are coming up very well. You see the growth of volume now going up quarter-on-quarter quite well. I think their growth is almost 19% to 20%, 19% growth, they have also achieved in volume. They have achieved 4% growth in this quarter also. EBITDA also is coming up reasonably well. The PAT side, of course, team is working hard because there are depreciation and interest part, which is taking away the EBITDA to PAT level. We are quite confident that the way infrastructure is developing and now their job is actually to enhance the utilization of the infrastructure.

And that is where they are working very hard. They've got a very good geographical areas. If you see Panipa, Udham Singh Nagar, Daman, Ernakulam, all are quite a -- Chandigarh, good geographical area. So there is now mandate from our side to the JV is that to enhance utilization, work out the good pricing mechanism to see that more and more consumer comes on there. So we feel -- I think they have a very good geographical areas. They will be able to bring it out, better profitability in terms of PAT. EBITDA is growing. In terms of PAT also, they will start giving us the result. We have to wait for a couple of more quarters.

[Operator]

We have our next question from the line of Yogesh Patil from Dolat Capital.

[Yogesh Patil, analyst]

Congratulations for the good set of numbers and mostly on the volume growth, fabulous volume growth, sir. Just wanted some clarity as you mentioned earlier, in Q1, our total ATM plus NWG allocation was 51%, which has come down to the 48%. To our limited understanding, any ATM decline will be replaced by the NWG. So the share of the ATMs plus NWGs remains the same. So it should not come down from 51% to 48%. Is it because that our volume is growing much faster rate and that's why the allocation in absolute terms, like some 1 MMSCM, 2 MMSCM remains the same? But our volume is growing, and that's why that share of 51% has come down to 48%?

[Suresh Manglani, executive]

There are some disturbance, maybe your -- somewhere your internet -- so I think if you can mute so that I can respond and other participants also can listen properly. First, I think, Ravindra, it's 51% versus 48%, is it correct?

[Ravindra Desai, executive]

Yes, yes.

[Suresh Manglani, executive]

Okay. So 51% combined last quarter and 4% combined this quarter. Now I think you understand better than all of us, we understand this sector and nuances of APM plus New well gas. That's the good news for us. You said rightly, one is volume growth, which also brings this proportionately slightly down because the volumes are growing, field is same. But also, we need to keep in mind that it's a natural gas field. There will be natural depletion also as we keep drawing more gases. So there is a possibility of, on one hand, slight depletion as it happens in any natural resources.

And the second, as the industry's volumes are growing, the proportionality of the allocation will also be taking place little moderately the way it has happened this time. So we have to keep these two things in mind, depletion, natural one, which is happening and the volume growth of industry or the entity by entity. Maybe we have volume growth this one, somebody may have higher than or lower than us. So accordingly, proportionately takes place. So your understanding is absolutely correct. I just also add a natural depletion also would take place in any field, which happens whether any other gas field also. So this field also is going to be happening, while ONGC is investing to enhance the recovery through New well gas intervention. I hope I have clarified to you, Yogesh. Maybe he has dropped.

[Operator]

Yogesh Patil, if you are speaking right now, you are not audible. We request you to please unmute your line and then speak.

[Yogesh Patil, analyst]

Am I audible now?

[Operator]

Yes.

[Suresh Manglani, executive]

Yes. Yogesh, you could hear our response Yogesh?

[Yogesh Patil, analyst]

Yes. Sir, my next question is related to -- can you throw some light on the recent GST reforms, which has bring down the CNG vehicle cost also. Have you seen in the last 1 month, any kind of a jump in the CNG vehicle conversions? And if possible, can you provide some details on that side?

[Suresh Manglani, executive]

Ravindra, you want to?

[Ravindra Desai, executive]

Yogesh, if you ask not literally for the 1 month, I would say some jump since. But what is predicted that around 1 million is projected for CNG vehicle sales -- 1 million to 1.2 million in this FY '25, '26 against 780,000 in '24-'25. So we are seeing a jump of around 18% if we talk of FY '24, '25 and '25, '26. So probably that's something positive. In addition, if we remove the 3-wheelers [indiscernible] or CNG in all other segments like heavy vehicles and light passenger vehicles.

[Yogesh Patil, analyst]

Fair enough, sir. Sir, last question. One of my earlier friend tried to ask you regarding the gas sourcing breakup. So if you could share the details of the gas sourcing of the Adani Total Gas in terms of the MMSCMD, it would be helpful -- in terms of like how much APM, NWG, HPHT, Crude Link, Henry Hub, approximate figures in terms of MMSCMD, it would be really helpful for us, if possible?

[Ravindra Desai, executive]

Yes. So see, it's a mixture of portfolio, and we are flexible in the contractual operations. So we can take a lower percentage, we can take a bit higher percentage. So it will be very difficult to pinpoint what percentage what we have got. But we have flexibility with all the indices plus we maximize the whatever allocation is happening, which is at a cheaper cost that we maximize and then we keep on optimizing the other indices including Brent and Henry Hub, where we have got a lot of flexibility in the contract.

[Yogesh Patil, analyst]

Okay, sir. The last one from my side. Have you seen any impact on the PNG industrial volume growth in Gujarat geography due to the continuous decline in LPG or the propane prices? And at least in the last 2, 3 months, 6 months, we have seen the propane emerging as a cheap alternate option for the PNG industry. Any thought on this side?

[Ravindra Desai, executive]

Just to -- yes, it's whatever question you have raised, it makes sense. And I agree with you that the propane prices are getting very competitive to natural gas. However, based on the price movement, what we do, we keep on optimizing our purchases. So to remain in the market as -- with comparison to alternate fuels, we keep on optimizing our portfolio and purchase volume on a longer term, it comes at a lower cost and these volumes are able to compete with the alternate fuels like propane.

[Yogesh Patil, analyst]

One of your competitor has already come up with the strategy of propane supply. Are you planning something on that front?

[Suresh Manglani, executive]

No. Actually, currently, the kind of industries we are serving across diversified geographies. I think if you see our growth is suggesting that still natural gas is being accepted. There are features which natural gas provides to the consumers, cash and carry versus what use and pay and various other flexibility which we provide, plus the qualitative aspects. I think currently, we are not seeing that compelling reason of immediately looking at supplying propane. Of course, we had, in the past, thought through that whether we should at least be a single solution provider of a propane plus natural gas or LPG. But this is on the table, not the way you suggested about our competitor.

[Operator]

Our next question is from the line of Somaiah V. from Avendus Spark.

[Somaiah Valliyappan, analyst]

I have a few questions. So first one, within this PNG volumes, can we have a split between the domestic and industrial volumes?

[Unknown Executive]

Yes. With respect to PNG volume, we have a domestic percentage of around 7% and other than industrial is 32%. So total put together, 31% is for PNG and 69% share of CNG.

[Somaiah Valliyappan, analyst]

Sorry, sir, in MMSCMD terms, can we break this? We are roughly around 3 MMSCMD of volumes and close to 2 MMSCMD is CNG. So the remaining 1 MMSCMD, can we have a breakup in terms of domestic and industrial commercial?

[Unknown Executive]

With respect to MMSCM, we can give you -- MMSCMD, we need to work out. So MMSCM -- so it is MMSCM, it is around industrial is 61.7% and domestic is 21% and commercial is around 7%.

[Somaiah Valliyappan, analyst]

Helpful, sir. Sir, also in terms of the growth, the 16-odd percent growth, if you could just help us new GAs, what would have been the kind of contribution? Because in the presentation, we break this -- there's a pie chart which talks about new GA, which is currently around 38% of the overall volumes. So what would have been the growth rate in this part and the other three geographical areas that we are referring, Ahmedabad and others, what would have been the growth rate?

[Unknown Executive]

So new GA is around 1 MMSCMD...

[Ravindra Desai, executive]

Are you saying -- when you say growth, which we said around 16%...

[Unknown Executive]

So growth is for new GA, it is 26% for CNG and 99% for PNG. Because base is low.

[Ravindra Desai, executive]

Base is low, correct.

[Suresh Manglani, executive]

So 26% is more relevant that CNG has a 26% growth in the newer geographical areas.

[Somaiah Valliyappan, analyst]

Understood, sir. That's helpful. Sir, also in terms of the sourcing, so when we say 48% is APM plus New well, the base that we are referring to is the CNG plus domestic PNG. Is that the base that we are referring to? Or put it other way, like 2 MMSCMD CNG volumes. So when you say 48%, this is 48% of 2 MMSCMD or we are referring to the company there?

[Ravindra Desai, executive]

When we are talking of 48%, this is at the company level.

[Suresh Manglani, executive]

So it means you're saying 2 million means 48% comes from APM and New well gas?

[Ravindra Desai, executive]

Yes, yes. You're right, sir, you're right.

[Somaiah Valliyappan, analyst]

So it's basically roughly around 15 to 2 MMSCMD -- like 1 MMSCMD of APM plus New well gas. That's our source correct.

[Ravindra Desai, executive]

Correct. Yes, around that part, yes.

[Somaiah Valliyappan, analyst]

And also in the presentation, we have mentioned 14% is Brent-linked. So this -- again, the base is at a company level? Or is it only the PNG when you say 14% is Brent-linked?

[Ravindra Desai, executive]

So when we talk of 14% Brent linked, so it is at the company level in totality, whatever we consume. But however, we have got the flexibility in the contract when this percentage can vary based on the prices of the crude oil during that time. So we keep on optimizing these volumes. So the percentage will always vary.

[Somaiah Valliyappan, analyst]

Yes, sure, sir. That part is clear. So we are basically saying 3 MMSCMD to 14%. So we are looking like 0.4 MMSCMD of Brent volumes at a theoretical level. I mean it will vary, I understand. So if I were to add all of this, so 1 MMSCMD is from APM plus New well and 0.4 is from Brent plus we have HPHT plus RLNG. If you could just help us on the HPHT quantum and RLNG, that would be helpful sir.

[Ravindra Desai, executive]

See, probably it will not be feasible because see, we have the HPHT volumes coming in regularly on a monthly basis. which varies on a month-on-month basis. So it will make a difference. This NWG also keeps on varying. So the percentage what we take in liter terms will keep on varying. So I think on a company basis, what you have taken is correct. But however, they keep on changing every month.

[Somaiah Valliyappan, analyst]

Okay, sir. I was just looking at like is it like a 0.3 or 0.5 very ballpark numbers, not any -- I understand on a monthly basis, it will differ. Is it like HPHT roughly we take around 0.3, 0.4, 0.5, anywhere around that range?

[Suresh Manglani, executive]

You see, Somaiah, actually what Ravindra is saying that while 3 billion could be divided that way. But if you infer that for -- and draw something from a future perspective, he's saying that may or may not stand correctly because there are contractual arrangements of take-or-pays, access nominations and various contracts being different, tenures getting expired, new contracts coming in. So he's saying -- I think those things keeps varying. This quarter, of course, he has given you, 3 million means 1 million comes is around APM and New well gas and then many details that you asked. So any other detail you require actually, Somaiah?

[Somaiah Valliyappan, analyst]

Got it. Got it, sir. Got it. Sir, other question for me, the station addition. So what is our expectation in terms of next, let's say, a couple of years in terms of annual station additions that we plan to have?

[Suresh Manglani, executive]

Sorry, I couldn't follow your question.

[Somaiah Valliyappan, analyst]

The CNG station additions, sir.

[Suresh Manglani, executive]

CNG station, you are seeing that how we have grown, if you are tracking us and you have a quarter-on-quarter growth, you are seeing 2, 3 things are there. One is we have already a stated minimum work program for each geographical area. We are also seeing how upstream pipelines are progressing. So that will also help us to add rapidly more number of stations. Today, we add more number of stations that has to be serviced as a daughter booster station, which causes inconvenience to even end consumers because there are dry outs, which takes place because of certain traffic issues or road issues, et cetera.

So we are keeping a watch. Our growth trajectory is -- will be commensurate to the market development and ensuring that every nook and corner of the geographical area, we take a lead to provide CNG station so that conversion starts taking place, or confidence building takes place. So 662, which today we have, I think we'll be growing it at the pace of similar as you have seen in the past. We are adding -- last year, I think we added 100 stations last year. This year, around similar station, we need to work out how the -- currently, our all 11 geographical areas are waiting for -- most of the geographic areas are waiting for national transmission line, which is being built by GAIL to be connected.

So that will help us to then start working on setting up more -- sites are already identified. We issued several LOIs for new DODO and CODos actually, new DODOs in particular. So be rest assured, the development of infrastructure will take place commensurate to the market development and wherever it requires us to take a lead to build the confidence on CNG, which we have been always taking and we'll continue to take the lead.

[Somaiah Valliyappan, analyst]

Got it, sir. One last question, sir, on the JV performance, which you had earlier alluded to. I mean, anything in terms of volumes that we can say in terms of what currently the JV is contributing in emergency?

[Suresh Manglani, executive]

JV volume, we don't consolidate it in our system. You know the accounting system. We only consider PT -- we consider PAT only. But in terms of volume, their volume is -- Preyash?

[Preyash Jhaveri, executive]

1.8.

[Suresh Manglani, executive]

They have got 1.88 volume, which is pretty good volume, which is now they have grown.

[Preyash Jhaveri, executive]

1.8 MMSCMD.

[Suresh Manglani, executive]

So, 1.8 MMSCMD volume is what our JV is doing today. And they are also given a good growth, I think 19% volume growth even they have achieved in this quarter.

[Operator]

Our next question is from the line of Achal Shah from Ambit Capital.

[Achal Shah, analyst]

Am I audible?

[Suresh Manglani, executive]

You are absolutely audible, Achal.

[Achal Shah, analyst]

Sir, just one clarity. My understanding is that we are the most -- we earned the most margin in CNG segment and the least in the domestic PNG. So can you give a broad sense of, sir, in percentage or in EBITDA per SCM terms that how much is the segmental margin in CNG versus, let's say, in industrial and commercial and in domestic PNG? Or like how much is -- percentage-wise, how much it's lower in the other segments versus the CNG?

[Suresh Manglani, executive]

See, today, Achal, it has become so dynamic. See, if you see -- one thing you must have noticed our volumes have grown significantly, but not at EBITDA, correct? Now why it has happened? A couple of things. One, of course, slight reduction in APM versus New well gas, dollar appreciation by 4%. Our aim is not to continuously keep making same margin as we are doing today. Our aim is to widen the volume base, make sure healthy financial outcomes because in CGD, Achal, you are tracking the sector, CGD, main aim for us is given the competitive fuels which are getting -- coming in, stable prices of MS and HSD, our job is to make sure more and more customers are brought into our net.

And that's the whole job everybody is doing in our geographical area. Wherever required, we are making it more affordable CNG, more affordable PNG, more affordable to industrial consumers. Aim is to make the people use and have a delightness of a PNG and CNG. So giving you a stable type of percentage margins may not be correct from a company strength point of view. I think overall, you have around 20% EBITDA margin, which you could see from turnover to the EBITDA INR 300 crores, which used to be slightly higher. And that indicates to you while we are bringing healthy results, our aim is for our company -- ATGL vision is they very clear that we want to widen this base very strongly through the volume base.

And then that gives us the leverage now to see how do we work on the -- increasing the expansion -- network expansion. So rest assured, I think around 20% EBITDA margin is there on our overall basis. CNG is a healthy margin, but not in every geographical area. So giving you a company-wide will be difficult, what is the margin in Ahmedabad, which is fully networked, which is fully online. There are hardly any daughter booster station versus what we'll be making in Amaravati, which is fully daughter booster station, will be very different -- actually, will be very different.

So I think it's a station to station. It is geographical area to geographical area. It varies regular. Let's say, Udaipur, we did this time 2, 3 online station around Diwali time. Now we have a large number of online. Suddenly, margin profile will change because the transportation cost, which used to be almost INR 8 to INR 10 a kg has reduced now. So I think it varies significantly from configuration to configuration, how we are doing online connectivity, how we are making more mother coming closer to DBS. So overall EBITDA of 20% is what you could currently see.

Domestic, again, same thing will happen. Let's say, Ahmedabad, I give you. I know you know better than -- you are tracking the sector. Ahmedabad, for example, you have intensity of -- very high intensity of a PNG penetration. You have high rises. You have a lesser per customer infrastructure. Your returns are better. Because your retailing happens much faster, your billing happens much faster, your collections happen much smoother versus you take another geographical area, which is very spreaded. Now then you will have -- and customer intensity is much lesser.

Again, per consumer domestic percentage will vary. So I think it is very dynamic, very relevant to the configuration of a customer. Yes, domestic also is reasonably healthy percentage, if you take Ahmedabad. But if you take a new geographical area, it will not be a good percentage of margin. So I'm not trying to brush away your question, but I'm trying to be candid to give you the right perspective on the from a CNG industry point of view today. It's not stabilized that my all GAs are fully stabilized, that I can give you the percentage in that sense. Would you like to share anything we have in more detail?

[Preyash Jhaveri, executive]

Overall gross margin.

[Suresh Manglani, executive]

Overall gross margin is how much?

[Preyash Jhaveri, executive]

29%.

[Suresh Manglani, executive]

Overall gross margin is 29%.

[Achal Shah, analyst]

Got it, sir. Sir, just one more last question is -- so sir, in the CNG segment, like one of your competitor is giving discounting in a way of credit cards via retrofitment of vehicles, especially the commercial big -- larger vehicles. Do you see your company going for a similar strategy to cater to more market or increase the CNG vehicle count in the relevant geographical areas or any such discounting or marketing strategy to increase the volume growth in the CNG segment?

[Suresh Manglani, executive]

Perhaps I think this is one where we have not come to your expectation that you are not even aware that Adani Total Gas is actually leading in the promotion and discounting actually. Because as I said, our aim is to widen the base, how the base will widen unless we bring more customer to our net. And more customer comes through various promotional schemes. So we, for a very long time, have been giving good discounting, various different, different schemes. Currently, I think various geographical areas -- depends upon geographical areas also, depending upon customer segment, we are giving up to the discount up to the 4 years period. So we also give fleet cards to the consumers.

On EV, we saw independence price on EV, INR 10 price we have launched for Independence Day celebration, which brought 50% more utilization. Right now, when I'm speaking to you, there is a Happy Diwali scheme going on. And then you will see Happy New Year scheme coming. I think that's the part and parcel of our business development and the sales and marketing team strategy. They keep doing it. It's been a very long time that Adani Total Gas has been giving very good schemes to 3-wheelers, to 4-wheelers and to bus operators. And many times, we work out customized solutions. So if you have any one -- any transporter or school bus operators, you can always ask them to contact us, we'll be ensuring customized solution.

[Achal Shah, analyst]

Thanks for the clarity. I was not aware of that. No, yes, it helps.

[Suresh Manglani, executive]

No, that's our failure, not your failure.

[Operator]

We have no further questions, ladies and gentlemen. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Adish Vakharia, Investor Relations, for closing comments. Over to you, sir.

[Adish Vakharia, executive]

Sure. Thank you once again to all the shareholders, analysts and investors for taking the time to join today's call. If you have any further questions, please feel free to reach out to us. The contact details are available on the website as well as on the Investor Relations press release. Thank you so much.

[Ravindra Desai, executive]

Thank you. Thank you, everyone.

[Operator]

Thank you. On behalf of Adani Total Gas Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.